PDT: We’re here with Mr. Bill Shelton, Coventry Corgi’s, and we’re speaking about a topic that Bill feels really strongly about it, and I think has a lot of impact on the future of the sport. And though that is the Preservation Breeder concept, and also I’d like to hear from you, what’s your idea, where to you see the future of purebred dogs? Where do you see that going?
BS: Ok so first of all, define a Preservation Breeder. It would be who breeds two purebred dogs together, is persevering the breed, so it just like brings continuity. You know there were the people who came before us, there’s us, and them the people who come after us. And so, we’re preserving, we’re being preservationist for those generations during our lifetime, to preserve them for the next generation as the ones who came before us. So preservation breeding is just that we’re preserving something that has a history, has purpose, and people have cherished and cared for, and protected and were guardians of for decades. And each breed brings its own unique individuality. So preservation breeders and the reason their important today perhaps more than ever, because today in this 21st Century, we’ve morphed into a time were dogs, they have a purpose but their primary purpose previously as gun dogs, herding dogs, the hounds, etc. served a specific purpose. But that purpose has kind of morphed itself into particularly into metropolitan areas where they are companions, and they still have the predisposition to behave a certain way and to do certain jobs, but now they do it within the city many times than in other habitats.
PDT: So with the Preservation Breeder program, or with the idea of the preservation breeder, you’re taking the dogs on a continuum and I love that.
PDT: And I love that vision. What would you suggest our steps are for the future of the purebred dog fancy?
BS: Well I think the most important thing that we should be promoting in purebred dogs, to the pet sector, to the general population, is that our dogs, particularly those bred by the Breeders of America, the American Kennel Club, are once again the healthiest canine colony to exist in the world. And how do we know that, is because we’re the only ones doing testing. And so, in that we can identify how our dogs are unhealthy or healthy. Many of the animal right’s agenda will use the information that we develop for the better welfare of dogs, meaning the DNA genetic markers through our Canine Health Foundation. By the way The Canine Health Foundation is the only Foundation known in the world like it, so once again its’s another contributing factor to the success of the AKC Breeders of American and their healthy canine colony. But back to this point is that we develop and identify what genes and what problems, anomalies, our dogs have health wise. We do that to make them healthier, but we allow people then to take that information and turn it around on us and say: look how unhealthy their dogs are. No. Well once again as we spoke in an earlier podcast that we’re breeding and selecting dogs to make them healthier. We’re weaving these pedigrees together, and we’re preserving these dogs in the best possible forms we can bring to families. Because the most important part of a preservation breeder’s life is to produce a healthy, happy family of dogs which will go into the human families and live long, happy lives with the least amount of health anomalies and issues. And so, that’s our greatest accomplishment. We’re morphed ourselves into believing that the dog show is actually our purpose, and that the dogs who win there are more important than large families of dogs, or more important than preservation breeders individually. Cuz preservation breeders individually are the most important thing that exist today because without a dog breeder, we don’t need handlers, we don’t need dog shows, we don’t need dog judges, we don’t need superintendents, we don’t need dog magazines, we don’t need any of those things if we don’t have preservation breeders. So if we don’t cherish and preserve those things that specific thing about breeding and being a dog breeder, then we’re never going to succeed. And this is a perfect point also, is that we’ve created this multi-million-dollar industry around the showing of a product which we are going to soon no producers. We’re going to have no preservation breeders that are going to be producing that next generations. And so, they talk about the grain of our sport, I don’t like to use the word, if you noticed previously I try not to use the word “sport,” because really the sport is a different part of what and who we are as preservation breeders. Breeding dogs is not a sport, it’s an art and a science, and we bring about dogs in that manner. Of course, they end up at a dog show, but we’ve created as we mentioned, this huge anomaly that is for the purpose of exhibiting them, but not for the purpose of breeding them anymore. We’re turned around completely what this originally started out to be, into something that I don’t recognize. Or that I wouldn’t like to recognize, or that I would rather recognize in a different capacity.
PDT: I think that’s a really, really great point Bill, and one of the things that we talk about is the fact that, you mentioned it as you say in another podcast, the idea of having a smaller world. Ok, so now we have fewer people breeding dogs, and less time, and less space in which to breed them. How do we take that smaller world that we have, and use it to help continue to preserve our breeds going forward?
BS: Ok, we have the best commodity in the world, I mean when it comes to canines, to dogs. We have the most beautiful, the most athletic, the most incredibly intellectual dogs, we have the healthiest dogs. So, we have the product, but it’s how we market it. And that’s the problem is that we exist in, as I said it in the sport, and so we need to step outside of that and go to social media, go to the internet and start telling them, and letting people know that we have the best kept secret in all of the world. And it’s because we, on an everyday basis, take for granted that we watch our dogs live happy healthy lives, and then my partner, a veterinarian, she goes to work and she sees dogs that are incredibly unhealthy. And so, we’re genuinely the good guys, I mean we’re the guys who are able and love the dogs. We spend our lifetimes as preservation breeders preserving and trying to create more healthy, families of dogs. Not for us, but for the rest of the world to enjoy, or the rest of the human race to enjoy.
PDT: And so what is your recommendation, you said earlier in another context, we need more breeders.
BS: We were just talking about the grain of our sport. Well, first of all, how are we going to make this succeed, this preservation breeder, or how are we going to make breeders succeed? First of all, I want to say that none of us are going to succeed in pods, in subcultures, in little groups, we have to include all breeders. And I’m sorry but we’re going to have to include high volume breeders, we can educate and share best practices, and we can make them better. They might even have best practices that we’ve never thought of, to use ourselves. We can all move into the 21st Century and use all of the scientific information we have right now to make and create better dogs. Look, we keep talking about Carol Bushay and other people, that information is a great facilitator in making us create healthie families of dogs. But back to your original questions. We talked about the grain of the sport. Well any young person who comes to dogs today, will go, “Oh, dog breeder, hmmm, dog handler, oh wait a minute, I could make a lot of money doing this business, I think I’ll pick being a dog handler because being a dog breeder is only going to cost me money, and it’s really a rather thankless job at the end of the day in many ways.” So, what we’re going to have to do is create better ways of encouraging people, and making clearer pathways to their success. Legislatively in the American Kennel Club, and all parts of our social day to day life, even in social media. We need to use the words and be proud of ourselves. We need to be proud of being dog breeders, we need to proud that we have bred these dogs and that we’ve done it for a purpose. Purposefully breeding purebred dogs, and so that’s an important think I thing to always realize, is that we need to purposefully say that we did this intentionally. No, we’re not bashful about it because we did it for all the right reasons. And that’s what we hope and we need to let people know who and what we’re all about, because we’re doing a very poor job of that. We need an organization that will represent Preservation Breeders on where we can start doing this. And that brings us to the point that a few of us, we’re discussed about an organization where we identify who will be, and can be a Preservation Breeder. That’s another whole conversation and discussion. But in light of that, in creating the Preservation Breeder mentality and idea, we do once again need to form a group which we can learn to support one another. Whether we’re a high-volume breeder or otherwise, and make us successful and create healthier, happier dogs. Because at the end, just like I mentioned once before about talking to those veterinarian students, you know we’re not in this against anyone. We’re in this to make a conservancy and join together and create happier and healthier dogs. We don’t do it to make unhealthy dogs, so we joined the Veterinarian community in trying to make this possible, and we do an excellent job of it overall.
BW: Kind of the same avenue too, we celebrate that we’re breeders like Steve said, we’re not the villains, we’re not the bad guys, we’re not criminals. Why is it an owner/handler group, why shouldn’t it be a breeder/owner/handler group. We’re just a breeder group because I’m proud of what I bred and I should be able to go in and show it off. And they didn’t ask us about it, they just did it so I have a little issue with that. The thing is there’s not a lot of educational things for the breeders. This seminar this coming weekend, I’m going to speak at Grass Valley that their ICSB unit put together, but there’s very few of those. When we did the them, when Bill did the breeder to breeder thing, and you know it was huge and very well received, but there should be something, it should be as important as a dog show. These wonderful dogs don’t magically appear one night in the handler’s van, so if we don’t support the breeders, there’s no backbone to this board. It should be breeders need to be celebrated, they need to be encouraged. It needs to be different, like Bill said none of the kids go in the breeders, I mean you very rarely hear of a new breeder, and sometimes we don’t even encourage them as much as we should because we think they’re not going to do it right. But we need to just help them in every way that we can. I think the AKC should have a mentor program where mentors are guided and celebrated and rewarded for what they do. So, you want to be this level of breeder, well tell me who you mentored. Well there’s nobody there, you’re not really helping the sport you’re just helping yourself and so I think it’s not given the attention it deserves.
BS: Well speaking of American Kennel Club, I’m a big proponent of the American Kennel Club and I believe they’re one of our only resources at this time. However, in saying that, The American Kennel Club misses the opportunity, they use a lot of verbiage about breeders, but they don’t use a lot of action. You know instead of developing just as Beckie said, and owner/handler program dog show, they should work towards a breeder’s competition and encourage breeders to come together and do this. So, the idea particularly behind this Preservation Breeder idea which we’ve discussed, I think the idea of preservation breeding with have a lot of appeal to future generation because we have many young people who like the idea of preserving something that’s worthwhile, and there’s nothing more worthwhile than happy, healthy purebred dogs. But in that, this idea about preservation breeders, we’re discovering throughout this country, that the herd cows, that they have preference in many ways. They get preferential treatment when they’re identified as a preservation, herd, is that not right?
BW: Ya, heritage or basically endangered species, just like a panda, it’s the same idea.
BS: That’s what we’re getting at. So, those heritages bred cattle are cattle that are preserved and are given specific leeway and the means to go forward. Anyway, stepping back here just a minute, the whole idea about preservation breeding and moving forward with that, is that if you read the preservation act and what it takes to put a species on the preservation list, and it’s interesting that most all of those animals on that the endangered species list, are sub-species of species. So in essence, the Dandie Dinmont Terrier is a sub-species of our species who is endangered of disappearing. And so, if we don’t recognize preservation breeders, or if we were able to in the future generation, have where we identify who is a preservation breeder, and if that preservation breeders breed is on the endangered species list, it says you have to supply, there’s some basic things, you can do and read it yourself. But those basic things are that you have to show a direction of how you’re going to increase the numbers of that breed, you have to identify how you’re going to go about it, and you have to have a place where it can be done. Well what better place than a preservation breeders kennel? What better organization to track the success, then the American Kennel Club? We could go on and on and on about those things. But the idea particularly about the preservation breeder idea to preserve everything for future generations, but to identify those breeds who could be lost and not be around in another decade. We mentioned Dandie Dinmonts, we have a few excellent breeders in the breed but we just lost one of the premium one’s last year. So now we have one other one who is dedicated to the breed, and none of us are getting younger, so if we can’t attract people to be preservation breeders, and show them a clear path to success and encourage them as The American Kennel Club, who else is going to do it? I would love to bring the American Kennel Club into the 21st century and have them be the representatives of the preservation breeder movement, but I haven’t seen a lot of help. I do want to step back though just a moment and say, they have created The Breeder of Merit program, and The Breed with Heart program. I’m not so sure that the Breed with Heart program is directed it us, I think it’s more directed at high volume breeders and bringing them into the fold of being successful, happy, healthy dog breeders.
PDT: Which is a good thing.
BS: It is
PDT: I mean this is what we were just talking about earlier. For everybody be working as one unit, we have to, I mean as hard as that is for any of to stomach in our minds
BS: It’s not for me
PDT: But I think for a lot of people it is. I understand, but I’m saying for a lot of people just to say that, that’s painful.
BS: Because they bought into the animal rights movement that you can’t be a good breeder and breed unless you breed one litter every other year.
BS: And of course this is one thing we’ve discovered. Now, these numbers I’m going to say aren’t necessarily accurate but they’re in the ballpark. In 1980-something, the American Kennel Club was registering over a million dogs. Today they register less than 500,00. Those numbers should have been exponentially huger today, we should be in the millions if we would have grown along with the popularity of dogs. Because the pet industry at that time in the mid-80’s reported that 51% of every household possibly had a dog, one dog or more. And today they’re reported as many as 67% of every household has a dog in it in this country. It’s a 67-billion-dollar industry and so we need to, meaning we The American Kennel Club, needs to be reaching out for more of that. Why can’t The American Kennel Club like the HSUS, I’m sorry, why can’t they take their direction, why can’t they sell memberships, why can’t they raise 127 million dollars annual rather than allowing them too, so we could have more advocacy for preservation breeding and healthy dog breeding, and producing dogs that are going to represent the canine race is a great way. Rather than allowing, I’m sorry, but socioeconomic neighborhoods to produce all of the dogs that are in the shelters today, which are typically in this country are Pit mixes and Chihuahua mixes, and not very well mixed. That’s a very broad statement saying that they’re those breeds and they’re mix. The shelters are becoming the pet stores of the 21st century and the breeders are the people in these neighborhoods who don’t care for their dogs. No, they don’t care,
BW: Well it’s not responsible, they don’t have safe sex.
PDT: Beckie could you speak for a moment for people that may not know, the difference between population, in other words the numbers of dogs. Like well there’s a Golden Retriever on every corner, versus the need for preservation breeding to maintain the gene pool. That how can a Golden Retriever belong on the endangered species list.
BW: There’s different subclasses for dogs for lack of a better term out there. There’s a lot of dogs that are bred, that there’s no genetic knowledge of their parents or their fore parents. They had supposedly a purebred Golden Retriever that bred with neighbors possibly purebred Golden Retriever, but there’s no long-term records on those dogs. There’s no health testing, there’s no follow up, there’s not bred by a breeder who’s going to take their puppy back anytime in their life that they can’t keep it. It’s not that they’re bad dogs, it’s just that they’re not the type of dogs that we’re trying so hard to preserve. So, are there plenty of dogs out there, probably although if we keep spaying and neutering like we are now, that’s going to become an issue too. There’s a difference in a preservations breeder that’s trying to improve each generation of the dogs they produce, and is making sure that each of their dogs is always in a happily ever after, and if not, they’re willing to take it back. Versus Joe Blow who breeds his Golden Retriever to the Golden Retriever down the street, and those no accountability there. When I tell these people that really shouldn’t be breeding, and I just try and educate them because the more I tell them no, the more they’re going to do it, that they’re responsible for those puppies for the rest of their life and the liabilities and everything involved, a lot of them turn around scram right away. But there’s a difference in somebody who’d passionate about preserving the breed, that they basically borrowed from the generation before, and they’re going to mentor the next generation, versus somebody that’s just throwing dogs together randomly, that’s just producing dogs. The concept that rescue or shelter, it is the new pet store and it’s where people go to get dogs now, but a lot of those homes, they’re recycle homes. So if this one doesn’t work out, I’ll get another one, and when on vacation, I’ll get a different one, and this one has puppies and my dogs older, so I’ll just trade it in. Versus somebody that’s going to be responsible for the rest of its life. So, it’s like taking different populations and saying these are the people that are going to be on welfare the rest of their lives, and these are the kids that are going to go to college and become lawyers and everything else. And we can’t change everybody in this society, but there’s nothing wrong with promoting what we feel is the healthiest, and the best, and the tested, and the breeders that are going to be responsible for those dogs for the rest of their lives.
BS: So in essence, who is a preservation breeder, and who do they represent? Well they represent that they purposefully breed, and that they represent just as we were talking about, we have many, many, different organizations who stand by us and help us. For instance, we did talk about The Canine Health Foundation, it’s the only Canine Health foundation in the world. They, and we, and the parent clubs, and The American Kennel Club, we develop all the DNA genetic markers through them, for not only purebred dogs, but for all dogs. We’re finding ways to save and make lives better for all dogs, even mixed bred dogs. We’ve organized and The American Kennel Club has rescue groups, first of all The American Kennel Club through all breed clubs, but then specifically the parent clubs have rescue organizations. And then those, they have chapter clubs, and those satellite chapter clubs are all over the United States for each and every breed. So even those who fall through the cracks possibly, are rescued through these organizations. But beyond that, preservation breeders are representing these rescue groups who are rescuing a lot of dogs from the irresponsible breeders who are not AKC breeders. So, we have The Canine Health Foundation, we have a rescue, we purposely breed for health, we’ve developed DNA genetic markers, we select on just general health issues, like hips, eyes, elbow, hearts, etc, etc. That’s another thing we do as preservation breeders, we mentor, we teach people, we help people make their lives better through training. So many preservation breeders have no idea what good dog trainers they are, and what great information they disperse to all their families of dogs, and information to those people. As preservation breeder, we do more and are recognized for very little than anybody else, and we don’t care because at the end of the day, we know our satisfaction is that we’ve created this family of dogs who goes out, and lives with a variety of people and families. And we get post cards, we get internet photographs, we get photographs of their kids in the bathtub with the dog, we get all of those things. And that’s what brings us satisfaction, is knowing that we created something as just as myself as a young boy, a companion where I might have been shy, introverted and all of those things, I had a companion that I otherwise might not have had. You can have that in any dog, but I will never forget that my first dogs were these purebred dogs that were fabulous and were protective and nurturing, so I think that’s really a great thing about preservation breeders.
PDT: Absolutely, totally 100% agree. Ok so I think we’re going to wrap up a little bit, I think that was a beautiful wrap up, I wouldn’t touch it with a ten-foot pole. The only thing that I would like to circle back to briefly that we could maybe add in. We talked a little bit about encouraging young breeders, like we have to have more people breeding dogs, and I’m really looking, again I’m going to ask for something specific, I really want what are our clear pathways, or how?
BS: Ok we need an organization. I wish that it was The American Kennel Club, now I have no idea what they’re going to be or what they’ll evolve into. You know we were asked recently, do you think The American Kennel Club should be teaching breeders or telling breeders how to breed. No, I don’t think so because my answer was, until they create their own clear paths to success, they shouldn’t be telling people who are somewhat successful, or should I say very successful already. So no, I don’t but I’m all for education no matter where it starts, begins or ends I’m all for education so yes, I’m glad The American Kennel Club is going to be doing breeders education and I think that’s a good thing. I don’t think they should be telling anybody how to do it, they should just be educating and let them choose those things. Carol Bushay, people like Carol should be giving lectures for The American Kennel Clubs, to parent clubs, and it doesn’t have to be Carol Bushay, it could be someone else, but she’s obviously one of the leaders who’s stepping up and developing a means of teaching the basics about dog breeding and beyond. And so, I think that would be a clear path for young people. Economically we need to figure out ways to bring younger people into dog breeding. If there’s anyone out there that wants to become a Pembroke Welsh Corgi breeder, well I’m 60yrs old and so if they’re interested I’ll show them how do it and they can pick up where we leave off. So that’s another clear path we could do, is to work with someone and make them, and we do have a couple people we’re working with, and I hope that they have that interest. You’re never going to make money breeding dogs, but you can basically pay your way and enjoy it in that way. Yes, I mean unless you do it in large numbers, and I’m not opposed to people in large numbers as long as they have the resources to do it well, and to do it in a healthy way for the dogs and for themselves, and to create clear paths for young people. I have the privilege of judging in other countries, and when I judge another country, particularly in Europe, I would say 60% of the people exhibiting dogs and being involved in the sport are less than 30yrs of age, where it’s very different here, most of them, it’s just reverse, they’re all over 60! And I think that the reason for that is how can you expect anybody to walk in and be a professionally golfer and not feel intimidated. How can you walk into a dog show today and not feel intimated by, in essence, competing with the greatest golfers in the world? Because that’s who these professional handlers are, and they’re incredibly well trained, they know how to train their dogs, they know how to present them and groom them, and they have an edge because let’s face it, as unfortunate as it might be, familiarity is a positive thing in human existence. I work against it every day when I judge and I think I do a pretty good job of it in judging just the dogs, and that’s what I try to do. But anyway, that’s not what’s important. What’s important is that we find ways for young people to compete and exist as breeders and I find it’s happening more in other countries. The other thing other countries do is they have two breeding competitions, they have a pairs classes, they have two dogs that represent their family and they compete after the best of breed competition. And they also have prodigy classes where they have to have three, where you know they’re all three generations, and they show it in the prodigy class, and then those classes, they hold groups for them. So we could do that for breeders rather than the owner/handler program. Not that I think anything’s wrong with owner/handler program, they can do it, however, they should have developed a breeder one like they have in other countries. We were at the World Show this year and it brought such joy to me to see this huge, huge, ring with three dogs from the winners of those prodigy classes from every breed, and they recognize 200 and some more breeds than we recognize, and have them all come in the ring. It was unbelievable, just unbelievable. But anyway, back to making them succeed, you know the thing that I have found in this country is that dog breeders are no longer proud, and in that essence, I think The American Kennel Club has lost their soul, and ours. Because we don’t have that strong feeling of belonging, and an energy that we deserve to be recognized as being what The American Kennel Clubs core constituency should be all about the core constituency today has become a fanfare of magazines and best in show rings, it hasn’t become that the everyday class of dogs, that when you go winners dog or winners bitch, that people find great, great pride in that. It seems to be, all of that is second class. It’s all about the advertising, the dogs going best in show day after day. I think it’s healthy when other dogs win, when you go to a dog show weekend when there’s four different winners every day, even in the groups I think it’s healthy. Now if your dog is so phenomenal, which I think those dogs only come along occasionally, that it should win the group all four days, then those are phenomenal dogs. But what we’re seeing today is dog after dog of people presenting dogs year after year. That’s why we’re not garnering new people, because when you go for five years and you see the same people, now they may have beautiful dogs, but then they may not too, win year after year, and week after week, their discouraged, they become discouraged. That’s why I think in other countries it’s successful, is because they bring in judges from all over the world. And I’ll go there and I don’t know who any of those 40 people are, I have to rely on my own good ability to identify quality in dogs and select those dogs to be the winners. And the end result may not be the same, as if like in this country we have magazines that unfortunately tell judges in every state in the union, tell them which dogs are winning and not winning, and I think it would be a healthier thing if we did have, you notice in this country we don’t like foreign judges because that means we might not win.
PDT: I like foreign judges, sorry! Ok so very quickly and I know we’re really stretching our time, but this is something that I think is really, really fascinating. Paul Lepiane, the Poodle Variety’s editor, and I had conversations going to my Best in Show Daily column, talking about teaching people how to judge dogs at a much earlier age, long before they’re actually becoming AKC recognized judges, teaching kids like I learned in 4H, I learned dog judging in 4H. And he was talking to me about livestock judging, and they have online livestock judging for pigs! Why can we not do this in dogs?
BS: Ya no we can do it. Most good dog judges, we’ve gone to and taken livestock judging courses in College and so you can take those. There’s a fabulous book Mrs. Clark always used to recommend.
PDT: What is it, is it the one about the cattle?
BS: Yes, I can look it up for you. An interesting story, I was just in Middleburg with some other friends and we found the book, the original one printed in 1941 and it belonged to Mr. Eldridge, the old dog judge. But anyway, back to what you were saying, you know we can and they are developing those things now, but dog judging, unlike, cuz see we’re talking about meat production. We’re talking about milk and egg production, so livestock judging, back to pig and cow judging, is more important than dog judging in that realm. When they judge those, they’re judged on less identifiable, they want them to be the best cut of meat, they want them to have big shanks or whatever they would have, or that they produce a lot of milk, etc. So, they don’t judge them on, we want a Siberian to have a small ear and not too open of eye because they have to exist is subzero conditions, tight lip lines, and that their feet should be thick, and that their coat and tail should be carried a certain way, and that the scapula should articulate the humorous at a certain angle, the pelvis should be set on at a certain point. I mean they get into some of that, but the main thing for them is that they produce them for meat, and in essence their purebred also obviously, and it’s interesting to me that the Animal Rights movement hasn’t pick on them more than they have on dogs. But dogs I think are anthropomorphically easier to target, and to get people’s interest.
BW: There’s no reason why junior’s part of their seminars, cuz they do juniors’ training, junior workshops, they should have enough anatomy as they do showmanship, because these kids don’t have a clue. And so, I don’t see any reason why that doesn’t happen. I do support the American Kennel Club, I think they’re trying, and there’s some great people in there, but why don’t they have a mentorship program? Why don’t the junior seminars include anatomy lessons? There’s a lot of things that should be part of the education.
BS: Once again we focus on the wrong thing. We’re rewarding junior handlers for being handlers and not for being breeders. So why don’t we have a junior breeding program? Why don’t we identify or have youngsters who join preservation breeders, and their names are tagged to the breeding of a litter they’re involved with that they get to track and follow, and that they get so many points for like say: they actual planned this breeding, they selected the sire and the dam, they helped in finding the homes and placing them for a life time, they make sure they mentored the new people, how many of them became champions, how many of them won great events like at specialties or something like that? So why don’t we develop a junior’s breeders group? Because right there once again, we’re glorifying what we were just talking about. We’re glorifying the all-breed dog show, and the best in show and the handling of the dog, we’re not glorifying the dog itself.
PDT: Thank you very much, I enjoyed our time and our talk. I appreciate all of you guys and I look forward to talking to you some more.
As always, if you have any questions or input we’d love to hear from you. The show note and links to resources are available at puredogtalk.com Drop us a note in the comments or email to Laura at puredogtalk.com Remember guys, this podcast if for you, so if you want to know something give me a holler, we’ll do a podcast for you. If you wouldn’t mind you could help me out here, take a couple minutes and visit iTunes and give us a review. This will help share the love of others out there out there in the sport. This has been Pure Dog Talk with your host Laura Reeves. We hope you can join us next time as we continue the journey to success with your purebred dog.